Why Math Can't Logically Be How The Universe Was Created

What a title. You should be very informed as to what this is about.

Many atheists will attempt to try and argue that the universe was created by math, or quantum mechanics. This comes in various forms, from a sophisticated and lengthy explanation (or maybe a book or two), to a nondescript "a mathematical formula created the universe" and so on. What is interesting about this theory is that is logically impossible.

What is math?

Mathematics is the science that deals with the logic of shape, quantity and arrangement. Math is all around us, in everything we do. It is the building block for everything in our daily lives, including mobile devices, architecture (ancient and modern), art, money, engineering, and even sports.

Math is a concept, and it is somewhat of a difficult one to explain. We understand what it is because it's all around us and it's present every day in every thing and in every possible way, everywhere in our lives. We understand the difference between having one of something or two of something because of math, and we are capable of building skyscrapers, rocket ships, and life saving medicines because of it. We can't bake a cake without math and we can't even tell you how many fingers you're holding up without math. However, pinning a definition on something like math is tricky.

Because of math's prevalence and relevance, some would say that math exists necessarily. That is, math must exist. This, however, is not a complete understanding. It's not entirely wrong, but it's just wrong enough to allow illogical theories like this one to exist.

Why doesn't math exist necessarily?

Time, space, and matter create math. Math exists necessarily, but only in the context of other existent things. In fact, without time, space, and matter, math does not exist. So math exists necessarily only due to the fact that it comes free as a package deal with the existence of things that also exist.

To put this another way, once you have a concept like time, math is "created" right alongside it. There cannot be a one second, a two second, a three second - or a second day, year, century etc. - without numbers and a way to add those numbers together. Without math, there is no possible way to describe time. Time would be meaningless without math.

It is the same with matter. You cannot have two or more of something or of any thing without a way to differentiate those things. Once you have two separate things, there needs to be a way to describe and understand the concept of having two things, or else you don't have any things. Math exists necessarily alongside matter.

Space necessitates math as well, as you cannot measure the distance between two objects without it! We see that time, matter, and space require math to exist, not the other way around.

We can see here that it's not entirely wrong to say that math exists necessarily, but it only exists necessarily in context to our universe. Our universe necessitates math - having anything other than nothingness means you immediately, necessarily also have math.

So Why Can't Math Exist Without Time, Space, and Matter

If you don't have any distinguishable things, you don't need math. If there is no time to count, no matter to differentiate, and no space - and quite literally nothing - then there is no need for math. Because math only exists necessarily alongside other existent things, that means that if nothing existed - nothing being a complete and total absence of any and every possible thing - then math could not exist.

Math requires some sort of differentiation to exist. Considering that math is a concept and not a tangible, material thing, that means that there must be some thing to apply the concept to. If there are no things, then there are no concepts. You can't have a concept of one thing, two things, four days, fifty miles, etc., unless those things exist. Without any things, the concept of math cannot be applied to anything and therefore it does not exist.

Time, Space, and Matter Didn't Exist Before The Universe

Thanks to Einstein, we know that time, space, and matter cannot exist without one another. They are interdependent - he also told us (reluctantly) that time, space, and matter had a specific and definite point of creation. They not only came into being at the same exact time, but they came into being. There was a beginning to time, space, and matter. If math only exists necessarily alongside time, space, and matter, then it also came into existence alongside time, space, and matter.

Conclusion & Further Arguments

What we see here, then, is that math could not have existed before anything at all existed in order to create existence because math does not exist without existence.

However, there are still arguments to be made. First and foremost, to get it out of the way, I'll address "if God exists, then math must have existed before the universe, so you just proved God doesn't exist!"

This argument is messy, but we'll sort it out.

We can start with the concept of God. God is timeless, spaceless, and immaterial - He is entirely infinite. He is not "one" God, He is God. He is, in fact, everywhere, everything, and every time. What we see here is actually that the only thing besides nothing that exists without time, space, and matter is infinity. But infinity existing does not necessitate that math exists. You can have infinite nothingness - that is, in fact, what we had before we had anything. You can't have one or two nothingnesses, but you can have "infinite nothingness".

Math, as we discussed, explains differentiation between things. Math explains why we can have two cats, why today is not yesterday, why your car is where it is and not somewhere else, etc. When you have infinity, you specifically do not have differentiation of things. It's the exact same reason why an infinite chain of events cannot be what created the universe - if you have infinite causes, you never have a first cause or a last cause. They are infinite, happening forever. There is no start or end, no one or two, no when or where. Math, in fact, does nothing to help us understand infinity. We don't describe infinity as being "billions and billions," or whatever, but, in fact, just... infinite. It is only infinity. There is no differentiation.

So an infinite God can exist without math, as there is still nothing to differentiate. In fact, the entire reason why monotheism is the only logical way in which the concept understood to be God can exist is because there is nothing to differentiate. Once you have differences in two separate beings, one necessarily must be in some way different than another. You can't have two infinite, timeless, spaceless, and immaterial beings. There is no differentiation to be made - so there necessarily cannot be multiple of these infinite beings.

Math requires something to differentiate in order to exist. An infinite God does not need differentiation. Furthermore, if the argument is somehow "something existed before the universe, so math existed before the universe," then we're still on the same page - my entire logical argument is that math cannot exist without something else also existing. You are, however, required to concede in this argument that God exists. So, maybe not a great argument to make if you're trying to explain away God.

Just To Make Myself Clear

There is one more point to make. If there is still any hope in your mind that math could have existed before existence and created the universe, consider what should be very obvious:

"Mathematical equations" cannot exist, just floating around in literal, pure nothingness. There is nothing about them that exist necessarily, and they are not a tangible thing. And even if mathematical equations were floating around in pure nothingness, they could not do anything. There is nothing to do anything to! If we have a recipe for a cake, this cake equation cannot just float around in space and eventually make a cake. It needs not only something to make the cake from, but it needs guidance. If mathematical equations could create anything, then I'd wonder why my math homework never did itself.

So even if mathematical equations can exist separate from any sort of time, space, or matter - even if mathematical equations can exist without any things to which it could apply itself - math is an impersonal concept. It cannot think or feel. It cannot act on its own to create anything.

This, in fact, ties directly into why God must logically be a personal being. If an impersonal, nonthinking concept such as mathematical equations existed for infinity, before time, space, and matter, and did in fact create the universe, then it would have done so necessarily. It would be unable to not create the universe, as in, these supposed mathematical equations would have necessarily had to create the universe immediately. If there is any possibility that these impersonal mathematical equations could have created anything, it would have had to have the capacity and capability to do so immediately, or else it would never do so. Math cannot make choices.

Since we know that the universe is not infinite and will eventually die out, if mathematical equations, against all logic and reason, did in fact create the universe, they would have had to do so immediately. The universe, therefore, would have already died out - infinitely long ago. Furthermore, if these mathematical equations existed for infinity, then there is no "beginning" point at which they would have created the universe, which simply heaps onto the logical impossibility of the theory.

And, no, it would not infinitely create universes. If it were allocated to create infinite universes, then it would have also done that necessarily, immediately. All of these other universes would have also already came into existence, ran out of energy, and died out, because it would have happened infinity ago. You cannot reach a beginning point in infinity - we again run into the problem of there being no beginning point at which for this mathematical equation to have began creating universes, because it would have been infinitely long ago.